Yes and also, hell yes. I’ve been looking for community and literature about the exact fact that he is the worst and I will never, ever stop listening to his music. Thank you literally
This is such a wildly disappointing take that feels really selfish and eerily close to the way I imagine people justify protecting abusers and rapists.
This is a privileged and unnecessary take. How would you feel as one of his victims reading this essay? I ask you to reread Dylan Farrow's open letter in the nyt and consider the harm you are spreading by idolizing a rapist and turning survivors into faceless afterthoughts.
I was a listener of all the versions of Kozelek’s music for many, many years and it meant the world to me. On hearing of these reports I was initially devastated and surprised at the amount of self pity I had about it, that one of my favourites wasn’t what I thought and I might have briefly gone through a kind of reaction like you mention.
But I don’t think I am under any doubt that Kozelek has done what many men have done and continue to do. To use his position to take advantage of, coerce, dominate and abuse women. I utterly abhor this view and treatment of women, no matter how wonderfully the perpetrator can soundtrack it.
Norm McDonald once spoke of his reaction to Patton Oswald’s comment about the news of Bill Cosby’s crimes that “the worst part about it is the hypocrisy’.
McDonald: ‘I always thought the worst part was the raping’.
Until Kozelek is truly held accountable for what he is done I don’t want to hear anything he has to say musically, present or past. Even in that eventuality I doubt there is anything that he has to say that I want to listen to.
Any attempt to separate his art from his actions is futile as it was likely used as a means to enact them.
In that last paragraph the quote that stood out to me was, "Maybe I hope that I might never have to be a part of that, that I can continue to interact with them through the more beautiful parts of their nastier, more complicated whole" It reminded me of writing I did as an attempt to calm my anxiety at loving art created by Noah Kahan(someone so loved by the mainstream music industry right now that his downfall almost seems inevitable) "Kahan uses his ability to comfort not just the person he’s personally harmed but everyone else put in a similar situation. The apology seems not only to be directed at this one person, but to all the women who have had to deal with less than ideal men in their lives. Doing his part, the only part he can do."
My justification seems naive compared to your hope which justifies itself by admitting to its cherry picking. It's this implication that makes the thinking in this essay so alive. The feeling that you are engaging not just with the part of yourself that you can stand but also the part that you think is a "piece of shit" Thinking does in fact have feelings. If you are a piece of shit, I am more-so. But I don't think either of us are pieces of shit because I do think the attempt to interact with the more beautiful sides of these complicated human beings is honorable and dare I say revolutionary. The beauty in us is reaching for the beauty in them.
Maybe there is a Third Space. Not yes or no. Starbucks uses this term in their lingo. But that's not the place I mean. I mean somewhere in between. It's something like grace where we can trace the world as it is. Broken and whole at the same time. We don't moralize and we don't close our eyes and we listen hard and slow. Maybe that's where you want to go. If you find it, please let me know.
idk man I feel like the best punishment for a man with sa allegations against him isn’t to be forced to sit with himself (like all good or bad people, even non-rape-accused bad people, must?) but to be put on trial…? how about then we can discuss separating art from the artist.
Where is this "justice that will be found elsewhere" when "complicated," self-loathing artists like MK continue to be validated through their medium — not in spite of their choices, but because of them? I like your writing, and unfortunately, I like Sun Kil Moon's music. But no, I don't think you need to equate a love of MK's music ("Maybe this makes me a piece of shit") with said abuser ("the male genius who also knows he’s a piece of shit"). These things are not the same.
No wonder Mark Kozelej spends so much time in Hungary, a place where cancellation is basically non-existent. Although thinking about it, having to live permanently in Hungary would probably be a fitting punishment for him. Shit country for a shit person
I recommend reading Monsters: A Dan’s Dilemma by Claire Dederer. It’s a really interesting journey/breakdown on separating (or not separating) art and the artist
the greatest punishment I can think of for Mark Kozelek is jail, but there we go. Nice you have the option to feel this way I guess.
Yes and also, hell yes. I’ve been looking for community and literature about the exact fact that he is the worst and I will never, ever stop listening to his music. Thank you literally
This is such a wildly disappointing take that feels really selfish and eerily close to the way I imagine people justify protecting abusers and rapists.
This is a privileged and unnecessary take. How would you feel as one of his victims reading this essay? I ask you to reread Dylan Farrow's open letter in the nyt and consider the harm you are spreading by idolizing a rapist and turning survivors into faceless afterthoughts.
https://archive.nytimes.com/kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/
I was a listener of all the versions of Kozelek’s music for many, many years and it meant the world to me. On hearing of these reports I was initially devastated and surprised at the amount of self pity I had about it, that one of my favourites wasn’t what I thought and I might have briefly gone through a kind of reaction like you mention.
But I don’t think I am under any doubt that Kozelek has done what many men have done and continue to do. To use his position to take advantage of, coerce, dominate and abuse women. I utterly abhor this view and treatment of women, no matter how wonderfully the perpetrator can soundtrack it.
Norm McDonald once spoke of his reaction to Patton Oswald’s comment about the news of Bill Cosby’s crimes that “the worst part about it is the hypocrisy’.
McDonald: ‘I always thought the worst part was the raping’.
Until Kozelek is truly held accountable for what he is done I don’t want to hear anything he has to say musically, present or past. Even in that eventuality I doubt there is anything that he has to say that I want to listen to.
Any attempt to separate his art from his actions is futile as it was likely used as a means to enact them.
In that last paragraph the quote that stood out to me was, "Maybe I hope that I might never have to be a part of that, that I can continue to interact with them through the more beautiful parts of their nastier, more complicated whole" It reminded me of writing I did as an attempt to calm my anxiety at loving art created by Noah Kahan(someone so loved by the mainstream music industry right now that his downfall almost seems inevitable) "Kahan uses his ability to comfort not just the person he’s personally harmed but everyone else put in a similar situation. The apology seems not only to be directed at this one person, but to all the women who have had to deal with less than ideal men in their lives. Doing his part, the only part he can do."
My justification seems naive compared to your hope which justifies itself by admitting to its cherry picking. It's this implication that makes the thinking in this essay so alive. The feeling that you are engaging not just with the part of yourself that you can stand but also the part that you think is a "piece of shit" Thinking does in fact have feelings. If you are a piece of shit, I am more-so. But I don't think either of us are pieces of shit because I do think the attempt to interact with the more beautiful sides of these complicated human beings is honorable and dare I say revolutionary. The beauty in us is reaching for the beauty in them.
Maybe there is a Third Space. Not yes or no. Starbucks uses this term in their lingo. But that's not the place I mean. I mean somewhere in between. It's something like grace where we can trace the world as it is. Broken and whole at the same time. We don't moralize and we don't close our eyes and we listen hard and slow. Maybe that's where you want to go. If you find it, please let me know.
If you love his music but hate him as a person, listen to him on Spotify. He’ll never see a penny.
idk man I feel like the best punishment for a man with sa allegations against him isn’t to be forced to sit with himself (like all good or bad people, even non-rape-accused bad people, must?) but to be put on trial…? how about then we can discuss separating art from the artist.
Where is this "justice that will be found elsewhere" when "complicated," self-loathing artists like MK continue to be validated through their medium — not in spite of their choices, but because of them? I like your writing, and unfortunately, I like Sun Kil Moon's music. But no, I don't think you need to equate a love of MK's music ("Maybe this makes me a piece of shit") with said abuser ("the male genius who also knows he’s a piece of shit"). These things are not the same.
I'll be quoting this essay at my next dinner party.
him and also verified Talented Piece Of Shit ryan adams
Both made absolutely amazing albums. Both are the worst people to say your fans of
No wonder Mark Kozelej spends so much time in Hungary, a place where cancellation is basically non-existent. Although thinking about it, having to live permanently in Hungary would probably be a fitting punishment for him. Shit country for a shit person
You have such an insane way with words, Eliza. So moved and intrigued by this.
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I recommend reading Monsters: A Dan’s Dilemma by Claire Dederer. It’s a really interesting journey/breakdown on separating (or not separating) art and the artist