Excellent piece! As a fan, I think the desire to ask for photos and take up a celebrity’s time is directly in response to the eeriness Eliza describes. When I’m engaging with art (or content) I feel that parasocial connection and the absence of real connection. I think that asking for a celebrity’s time and for a photo is sort of a desperate attempt to bridge this eerie gap. The desire for human connection is very real, and yet in the case of celebrity totally fantastical. I think that fans (myself included) need to interrogate what it is they’re looking for when they’re seeking acknowledgement, and if a photo or a quick conversation will actually get them closer to achieving it.
I think you make a great point! It's uniquely weird to feel close to someone who doesn't know you, and whom you don't actually know. I guess the solution is understanding that your relationship is with the art, not the artist?
The proliferation of Stan culture goes hand in hand with the immense loneliness young people are feeling. One of the things I’ve always appreciated about The Pod is how you insist that we don’t fucking know you girl!!! Acknowledging the media I consume is a close approximation for meeting a social need helped me identify what it is I envy about the dynamics I see online. This insight ultimately led me to seek that out in the real world, which has been far more fulfilling because it’s my beautiful fucking life to live. Reverence in our culture is a sign of desperation. The surface level dismissal of “it’s not that big of a deal to ask for a photo!! This artist must hate their fans” conveniently protects the fanatic entitlement to surveil people in the public eye. Instead of building a safe image of someone based on every piece of information I can glean from online, I’m more inclined to turn towards my friends and become obsessed with how they might be the next Chappell.
hmm, I never considered loneliness to play much of a part but rather the encouragement, and normalization of overconsumption. Also the pseudo familiarity that social media has created and fostered. True celebrities weren't on social media keeping us updated with their life as if we were friends. For the most part we only interacted with celebrities via interviews, tv, magazines, concerts, or maybe paparazzi and blogs. That pseudo familiarity however has given delusional fans a sense of entitlement.
I feel like the media builds stars up to godlike figures many times. They even call them idols. It's no wonder when someone sees their favorite musician they go insane.
I've tried not to approach celebrities unless it looks like they have the time to chat.
Also more thoughts: I feel like this is particularly bad for indie girls (or girls who have just blown up like Chappell), because fans feel like they’ve put them on the map or something? Like I am the reason you’re so successful therefore you owe me a photo? Obviously, the trade doesn’t work like that. The trade is the art itself.
beautiful writing (esp that ending) and so needed!
Truly I think people don’t understand the extent of their entitlement to celebrities/online personalities— I’ve been seeing a lot of "but asking for a photo isn’t creepy/bad" in response to Chappell’s vid and while asking for a photo maybe isn’t creepy it certainly IS annoying, and we all know it. Asking for a photo with a celebrity is just a selfishness you’ve decided is ok/worth it. I’m not trying to demonize anyone who’s ever asked for a pic and I’m sure there’s are nice ways to go about it, but at the same time I wish we wouldn’t pretend that we don’t all know it’s an annoying thing to do/actively putting that person in a weird spot (bc saying no would be super awkward in most cases). It’s also just kantian like, if everyone who ever saw Chappell asked for a photo she wouldn’t be able to move, so like, maybe have some decorum and mind your business lol! People don’t exist for you to consume just because they’re artists.
loved this - amazing how many people fail to realise that the people they look up to are, in fact, people. side note, i can't believe someone had the nerve to send you a dm like that? how disgusting
I actually got a photo with Chappell last November and now I feel so mixed about it. I definitely feel like I was motivated by the desire to show everyone that I met her (I kind of knew she was going to blow up) without much regard for her time.
Chappell’s feelings and right not to be harassed is the most important thing in this discussion, but from a fan’s perspective, there is a minor tragedy you can never truly repay the artists who have changed your lives. You could tell them, but they wouldn’t GAF. It reminds me of Punisher by Phoebe Bridgers and Bite the Hand by Boygenius, which show both sides of the coin.
I wish we were at a tipping point but I think things will continue to escalate and get worse. My perspective is as a former stan, and I've been digging into the proliferation and feeding of stan culture and it's really bleak. Stalker fans have been encouraged for many years at this point, so even those fan objects that speak out against it are swimming against the tide that has been normalized already. And the business entities that don't have to actually deal with these interactions and the knowledge of being consumed are happy to feed into it because it's good for business. And it's beyond music-- there was a recent case of hockey fandom where a player had to speak out against fans that had been flown out to games and gifted personalized merch by the team HQ. It's bleak.
this was a great read. i loved the way you described this ‘franticness’ and thrashing about in response to realising there are masses of people out there who are hungry for you, who think that they know you, for whom you mean something so wildly different than who you are. i find it interesting to think about whether it’s ever really completely ‘right’ (whatever that means) to approach a celebrity out in public, outside of a meet & greet oriented space. you can never know how this person feels about being approached on this particular day, there are so many variables, or how many people have already approached them. i’ve not seen or met enough famous ppl to have real experience with this lmao but it kinda feels like the only way to not treat someone like an object to sightsee and take photos of is to just walk by…?
I think we're all too entitled to the celebrities we like. We're like those people in the 80's camping out in front of Michael Jackson's hotel room except we have social media and tiktok and our feedback bubbles that convince us that we're somehow better because we can be openly snarky about our obsessive stalking of the famous and wealthy. We can be so snarky that we can make a name for ourselves off of the strength of our snark. That doesn't change the fact that we are just as violating and pushy as those fans and I think the fact that we don't have to acknowledge it anymore makes it much worse
was just watching someone on tiktok talking abt how this might be the fall of chappell (on the internet) when i got ur notif for this. very well put. this era of parasocial relationships, the fan behavior, it's a bit insane. hopefully u're okay! hopefully this 'very demure, very mindful' internet era will let ppl be mindful abt boundaries gahsgshhs
This is a very interesting and insightful essay. As someone who has never been in this position, Incan only imagine it, but I can do that.
When I have (rarely) approached a celebrity online, I have assumed that I would only get through to her handlers. While I think that is true for the most part, I am occasionally surprised by a reply that seems genuine. I try to respect the space of the person (bot) to whom (which) I am Talking.
I love this so much. I grew up wanting to be known, to have influence. As I learned what comes with it, I abandoned that dream. I now work behind the scenes in the industry I always dreamed of helming, dashed thoughts of seeing myself as a poster child. I definitely couldn’t handle the pressure, and I admire Chappell and others for speaking out. Since she posted, people have said “She’s not going to make it in Hollywood”, “she’s going to drop off the charts now”, but I think a more likely scenario is she will retreat from the public when not working, similar to Beyonce. That’s another conversation about having to become a hermit for your own well-being when you’re not being entertaining enough for the masses…
Excellent piece! As a fan, I think the desire to ask for photos and take up a celebrity’s time is directly in response to the eeriness Eliza describes. When I’m engaging with art (or content) I feel that parasocial connection and the absence of real connection. I think that asking for a celebrity’s time and for a photo is sort of a desperate attempt to bridge this eerie gap. The desire for human connection is very real, and yet in the case of celebrity totally fantastical. I think that fans (myself included) need to interrogate what it is they’re looking for when they’re seeking acknowledgement, and if a photo or a quick conversation will actually get them closer to achieving it.
I think you make a great point! It's uniquely weird to feel close to someone who doesn't know you, and whom you don't actually know. I guess the solution is understanding that your relationship is with the art, not the artist?
The proliferation of Stan culture goes hand in hand with the immense loneliness young people are feeling. One of the things I’ve always appreciated about The Pod is how you insist that we don’t fucking know you girl!!! Acknowledging the media I consume is a close approximation for meeting a social need helped me identify what it is I envy about the dynamics I see online. This insight ultimately led me to seek that out in the real world, which has been far more fulfilling because it’s my beautiful fucking life to live. Reverence in our culture is a sign of desperation. The surface level dismissal of “it’s not that big of a deal to ask for a photo!! This artist must hate their fans” conveniently protects the fanatic entitlement to surveil people in the public eye. Instead of building a safe image of someone based on every piece of information I can glean from online, I’m more inclined to turn towards my friends and become obsessed with how they might be the next Chappell.
hmm, I never considered loneliness to play much of a part but rather the encouragement, and normalization of overconsumption. Also the pseudo familiarity that social media has created and fostered. True celebrities weren't on social media keeping us updated with their life as if we were friends. For the most part we only interacted with celebrities via interviews, tv, magazines, concerts, or maybe paparazzi and blogs. That pseudo familiarity however has given delusional fans a sense of entitlement.
I feel like the media builds stars up to godlike figures many times. They even call them idols. It's no wonder when someone sees their favorite musician they go insane.
I've tried not to approach celebrities unless it looks like they have the time to chat.
Also more thoughts: I feel like this is particularly bad for indie girls (or girls who have just blown up like Chappell), because fans feel like they’ve put them on the map or something? Like I am the reason you’re so successful therefore you owe me a photo? Obviously, the trade doesn’t work like that. The trade is the art itself.
beautiful writing (esp that ending) and so needed!
Truly I think people don’t understand the extent of their entitlement to celebrities/online personalities— I’ve been seeing a lot of "but asking for a photo isn’t creepy/bad" in response to Chappell’s vid and while asking for a photo maybe isn’t creepy it certainly IS annoying, and we all know it. Asking for a photo with a celebrity is just a selfishness you’ve decided is ok/worth it. I’m not trying to demonize anyone who’s ever asked for a pic and I’m sure there’s are nice ways to go about it, but at the same time I wish we wouldn’t pretend that we don’t all know it’s an annoying thing to do/actively putting that person in a weird spot (bc saying no would be super awkward in most cases). It’s also just kantian like, if everyone who ever saw Chappell asked for a photo she wouldn’t be able to move, so like, maybe have some decorum and mind your business lol! People don’t exist for you to consume just because they’re artists.
Anyway rant over haha — loved the piece.
loved this - amazing how many people fail to realise that the people they look up to are, in fact, people. side note, i can't believe someone had the nerve to send you a dm like that? how disgusting
I actually got a photo with Chappell last November and now I feel so mixed about it. I definitely feel like I was motivated by the desire to show everyone that I met her (I kind of knew she was going to blow up) without much regard for her time.
Chappell’s feelings and right not to be harassed is the most important thing in this discussion, but from a fan’s perspective, there is a minor tragedy you can never truly repay the artists who have changed your lives. You could tell them, but they wouldn’t GAF. It reminds me of Punisher by Phoebe Bridgers and Bite the Hand by Boygenius, which show both sides of the coin.
I wish we were at a tipping point but I think things will continue to escalate and get worse. My perspective is as a former stan, and I've been digging into the proliferation and feeding of stan culture and it's really bleak. Stalker fans have been encouraged for many years at this point, so even those fan objects that speak out against it are swimming against the tide that has been normalized already. And the business entities that don't have to actually deal with these interactions and the knowledge of being consumed are happy to feed into it because it's good for business. And it's beyond music-- there was a recent case of hockey fandom where a player had to speak out against fans that had been flown out to games and gifted personalized merch by the team HQ. It's bleak.
this was a great read. i loved the way you described this ‘franticness’ and thrashing about in response to realising there are masses of people out there who are hungry for you, who think that they know you, for whom you mean something so wildly different than who you are. i find it interesting to think about whether it’s ever really completely ‘right’ (whatever that means) to approach a celebrity out in public, outside of a meet & greet oriented space. you can never know how this person feels about being approached on this particular day, there are so many variables, or how many people have already approached them. i’ve not seen or met enough famous ppl to have real experience with this lmao but it kinda feels like the only way to not treat someone like an object to sightsee and take photos of is to just walk by…?
I think we're all too entitled to the celebrities we like. We're like those people in the 80's camping out in front of Michael Jackson's hotel room except we have social media and tiktok and our feedback bubbles that convince us that we're somehow better because we can be openly snarky about our obsessive stalking of the famous and wealthy. We can be so snarky that we can make a name for ourselves off of the strength of our snark. That doesn't change the fact that we are just as violating and pushy as those fans and I think the fact that we don't have to acknowledge it anymore makes it much worse
was just watching someone on tiktok talking abt how this might be the fall of chappell (on the internet) when i got ur notif for this. very well put. this era of parasocial relationships, the fan behavior, it's a bit insane. hopefully u're okay! hopefully this 'very demure, very mindful' internet era will let ppl be mindful abt boundaries gahsgshhs
very important observations, hope you can continue to do what you love without the weight of the public eye 💟
Wow, WHAT a last line. Really enjoyed this one! :)
Woah the ending was powerful! Such a limitless topic. I also delved into our obsession with fame and whether there could ever be a way around it, in my article here: https://open.substack.com/pub/dariadae/p/fame-attracted-to-the-light?r=19l1l4&utm_medium=ios
This is a very interesting and insightful essay. As someone who has never been in this position, Incan only imagine it, but I can do that.
When I have (rarely) approached a celebrity online, I have assumed that I would only get through to her handlers. While I think that is true for the most part, I am occasionally surprised by a reply that seems genuine. I try to respect the space of the person (bot) to whom (which) I am Talking.
I loved the way you navigated gratitude with fandom expectations and entitlement.
I love this so much. I grew up wanting to be known, to have influence. As I learned what comes with it, I abandoned that dream. I now work behind the scenes in the industry I always dreamed of helming, dashed thoughts of seeing myself as a poster child. I definitely couldn’t handle the pressure, and I admire Chappell and others for speaking out. Since she posted, people have said “She’s not going to make it in Hollywood”, “she’s going to drop off the charts now”, but I think a more likely scenario is she will retreat from the public when not working, similar to Beyonce. That’s another conversation about having to become a hermit for your own well-being when you’re not being entertaining enough for the masses…